[TW for denial of autonomy and entitlement]
There's a phrase floating around in the ether that goes: "nice guys finish last." It might be true, it might not be true, I don't know. The validity of the statement isn't what I'm talking about here. I'm here to distinguish between Nice Guys and nice guys, and believe me, there is a huge difference. Everyone, I think, has that one friend that complains about how they're always so nice to women and yet they get nothing in return for it. Despite their best efforts, their best girl friend always winds up with the jerks, and they get nothing. Despite everything nice that they've done for that hot girl at school, they simply cannot "get it in." They feel that they deserve some sort of recompense for their good behavior. Most of these guys will probably receive an abundance of sympathy, mostly from other Nice Guys; I mean, they HAVE been nice, after all, don't they deserve a little something in return, whether it's sex or a relationship or what have you?
No. No they do not.
Why is that, you ask? First of all, no woman is obligated to give of herself, whether it's physically or emotionally, on demand. Let's get that clear right now. It's fantastic when men want to do nice things for us, and we are very appreciative, but we are not obligated to have sex with you or enter into a relationship with you because of that. Therein lies the difference between Nice Guys and nice guys: truly nice guys do nice things for women because they genuinely want to be nice. Nice Guys do nice things for women because they expect to get something out of it; they consider the woman as obligated to reciprocate, either with her body or her heart, and they, because of their actions, feel entitled to her. They don't care about what the woman wants, and they do not respect her freedom to decide, nor do they respect her feelings; the only thing that concerns them is their own desires.
You can tell which is which by the reactions they have to rejection. Truly nice guys, when faced with rejection, will be disappointed, of course, but they will respect the woman's decision and eventually move on to someone else who reciprocates their feelings. Nice Guys, on the other hand, will often spiral into self-deprecation so badly that even Robert Smith would look at them askance. However, it is not the self-deprecation that makes them Nice Guys: it's who they blame after being rejected. You've probably heard it before: "I've been so nice to you and you've done nothing in return for me. All women are bitches. You all say you want a nice guy but you're lying: you all just want douchebags. Well, guess what? Now I'M gonna be a douchebag, and I'm gonna bag all the women I want! And it's all YOUR fault! Bitch."
Yeah.
There's a million and one things wrong with this reaction. First of all, holy entitlement Batman. Like I said before, the act of being nice does not automatically entitle someone to sexual favors or romantic involvement as a result. The woman is not obligated to fulfill those demands. And they are indeed demands, no matter how you slice it. Also, the statement "all women are bitches" isn't going to get anyone any brownie points; mass generalizations generally do not help one's case. Neither does telling all women that they're lying when they say they want a nice guy, and by proxy telling that one woman that she's lying to them. It's not that she doesn't want a nice guy; she doesn't want you. Which, yeah, sucks completely, but if that's how you're going to react I don't fucking blame her; she certainly doesn't want a Nice Guy complaining that she's not fulfilling an obligation that she never agreed to in the first place.
And as for the "I'm gonna be a douchebag to get women" part, not to burst your pretty little Nice Guy bubble, but you're already a douchebag. No drastic change in personality is necessary. If you really want a woman to have sex with you or get involved romantically with you, try respecting her autonomy and giving her the space to make her own decisions about her life without freaking out when they don't include you.
You know I was just recently sleeping with a Nice Guy. The sad bit is he used to be genuinely nice and then he just decided girls only go for douchebags. I just hate Nice Guy syndrome. It seriously gets on my nerves. It's like, if you're so nice then why did you think it was appropriate get your friend (a total stranger I might add) to call me a slut so I'd stop sleeping with you? Sorry, venting a personal frustration. At any rate Nice Guys bug the hell out of me. Great post.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry that you had to deal with a Nice Guy! :( I'm especially sorry that you had to deal with one that was so brutally disgusting towards you. You deserve much better than that! I do not mind any ventings of personal frustration, if only because my entire blog is really just about the same! :)
ReplyDeleteAs someone who is struggling with Nice Guy(TM) syndrome and trying to pull out, what do you recommend men do? I never really thought of myself as manipulative until recently. It made good sense to do things to get someone I liked to like me in return. Regrettably, I did read PUA literature and it warped my view of women. But I'm also involuntarily celibate and don't like to be alone, although I know I need *no one* . . . it's still nice. :) The most I gathered is that I need to do my best at being myself, gain hobbies and interests, and make myself interesting. Then, if anyone is attracted to me, it will come naturally. What do you recommend? Please also bear in mind that I'm open to criticism. :)
ReplyDeleteI think that the best thing you can do you've already done, which is realizing that your behavior was manipulative and that you were doing things for the sole reason of getting people to like you in return, rather than doing them just for the sake of being nice. It's also great that you've realized that simply being yourself and allowing things to take their natural course is the best thing to do in terms of relationships, romantic and platonic.
ReplyDeleteIn general, I would also recommend keeping track of your actions, your motivations behind these actions, and your reactions to the ultimate outcome. For example, let's say you decided to ask a girl out after a few weeks of friendly flirtation, doing favors for her, etc. Were you doing these nice favors for her because you wanted her to say "yes" to a date and because you wanted her to feel guilty about saying "no," or did you do these things because you genuinely like her and wanted to be nice for the sake of being nice? Also, keep note of your reaction if she turns you down. Obviously, disappointment is going to be a major factor, but keep an eye on whether or not you try to guilt trip her into saying yes after she's already said no, and also keep an eye on whether your mindset and/or verbal reactions fall into the "all women are bitches" trope. If you find that you're heading in that direction, stop yourself and ask yourself why you're reacting that way.
Reader's Digest version, keep an eye on your behaviors and reactions and analyze why you may be acting and feeling the way that you are. And then take what you learn to make yourself a better person!
Side note: Thank you for taking the time to read my blog and to comment! :)
Thank you for writing this and your advice! I will try to keep an eye on future entries. :)
DeleteI am curious if you do think it's a good idea, though, not to get addicted to one person. I don't think it's fair to throw the baby out with the bath water since I think some of that advice can be cleaned up. I'm just curious as to your thoughts on that, if you have time. For me, I think it's about having fun, expressing you like someone early enough so as not to be awkward (and thus make your intentions clear), and getting over it if they don't reciprocate and hopefully building a friendship from that foundation. I think if you put all your hopes on one person, you start to act like a stalker and creepy. Plus, I'm not sure it's fair to the other person. Because, truthfully, I'm not sure you owe anyone your devotion unless you're in a relationship with them (and I've seen some feminist blogs question even that).
DeleteIt's definitely not a good idea to get addicted to one person, for many of the reasons that you mentioned. It's not fair to them if you place all of your hopes for happiness on them, and if you express as much, it's pretty much emotional blackmail, since I feel that most people are, in essence, good people, and will feel terrible if something were to happen to you and often feel pressured into maintaining the relationship (whatever it might be) in order to prevent that from happening. The BIG thing is "getting over it if they don't reciprocate," which is super important. The Nice Guys (TM) DO NOT get over things; rather, they let the bitterness consume them, and they let that bitterness and the resulting misogyny overtake their lives, and that is not something that you appear to want to do.
DeleteWhen it comes to "owing" someone devotion, I would argue that you don't owe anyone anything, including your significant other. Obviously if there's a mutual trust, affection, etc. then devotion will come naturally. But no, I don't feel that you "owe" anyone anything in principle. If your S.O. cheats on you, you don't owe it to them to stick around. If your S.O. hits you, you don't owe it to them to stay and keep taking the beatings. Devotion, like respect, has to be earned. At least that's my $0.02.
I have a nice guy. The thing with our relationship is he wasn't really that interested in the beginning because when we first met and started out as friends, I was married so I became "out of bounds". Once I separated from my ex, it took 6 months. I just let him know that I would always be there for him, as a friend, no matter what. I never expected anything in return. I treated him the same way I treat all of my friends. I'm always available if they need me, I offer help if I think they need it and it's always no strings attached because one day I know I might need their help too and I never want to hold that over them.
ReplyDeleteThat said, ultimately it was up to him to make the choice. I put it out there that I was interested in a relationship with him, but that's it. I never went out of my way to do things, I just let him know that I was available and stepped back. This is the best and most fulfilling relationship I've ever been in and I think it's because we were friends for 2.5 years before we even started dating and it was a mutual decision that was tempered by trust and time.
I may have gone on a tangent so I hope this makes sense.
It absolutely does make sense. :D That's how it should be. You treat people nicely because you want to be nice to them, not because you want something from them and you're planning on using those nice gestures to guilt them into something. Incidentally, my boyfriend and I were friends for about the same amount of time before we started dating, and even though we've only been an official couple for the past five months, I feel like I've known him forever. It's that kind of thing. :D
Delete:D That's wonderful! I think starting out as friends is the way to do it. You get to know one another without all the dating nerves and pretenses. You get to be yourself and get to see the real them because there's no reason to try impressing one another. This is the first time I've ever had a relationship with a friend and out of all my prior relationships, it's the best one, by far. :3
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